[mkroot] Fwd: Re: To the people who keeping pinging me off list...

[Philip Rhoades]

Sorry, should have replied to all . .


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [mkroot] To the people who keeping pinging me off list...
Date: 2018-03-14 08:33
 From: Philip Rhoades <phil at pricom.com.au>
To: David Seikel <onefang at gmail.com>
Reply-To: phil at pricom.com.au

David,


On 2018-03-14 04:04, David Seikel wrote:
> On Wed, 14 Mar 2018 03:28:18 +1100 Philip Rhoades <phil at pricom.com.au>
> wrote:
> 
>> David,
>> 
>> 
>> On 2018-03-13 06:43, David Seikel wrote:
>> > On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 13:11:52 -0500 Rob Landley <rob at landley.net>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> FYI, I disabled all the subscriptions to the old aboriginal linux
>> >> mailing list when I moved 'em over (and made new subscriptions
>> >> require approval), so if you send a message there it goes into
>> >> moderation.
>> >
>> > My current "mkroot" email folder is still called "FWL".  I've been
>> > around here for a while.  lol
>> >
>> >> > Subject: Re: [mkroot] To the people who keeping pinging me off
>> >> > list... From: David Seikel <onefang at gmail.com>
>> >> > Date: 03/08/2018 02:16 PM
>> >> > To: aboriginal at lists.landley.net
>> >> >
>> >> > On Thu, 08 Mar 2018 15:03:18 -0500 Alain Toussaint
>> >> > <alain at vocatus.pub> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >>> getting the "and now we build linux from scratch and beyond
>> >> >>> linux from scratch natively under the result" infrastructure
>> >> >>> back in place
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I'd be the one in favor of that. I have been accepted as editor
>> >> >> of BLFS and even though I'm knee deep into build replicability
>> >> >> territory (build LFS --> boot LFS --> build second LFS under
>> >> >> first LFS --> see if it barf) so that I haven't been able to
>> >> >> contribute to the 8.2 release, we do have request for 686 build
>> >> >> and I do know that mkroot even support 486 and build a kernel
>> >> >> for it (I myself would be curious to find a 486 able to boot
>> >> >> LFS 8,2).
>> >> >
>> >> > I might be able to help with that.  If I recall correctly, I was
>> >> > responsible for adding the original Aboriginal Linux support,
>> >> > and I still have the 486 device I needed that for.  Building LFS
>> >> > and BLFS is on my TODO, and is near the top of that TODO.
>> >>
>> >> I'm pretty sure 486 support works properly in mkroot? But you're
>> >> right, I do not have actual 486 hardware to test it on, just
>> >> qemu...
>> >
>> > I started building LFS 8.1 on Sunday, and later today (Tuesday my
>> > time) I'll continue.  I'm starting with the "build it manually
>> > yourself" method suggested in the automated LFS page, and scripting
>> > it myself as I go along.  I'm up to the beginning of chapter 6,
>> > I'll likely start on bits of BLFS after finishing that.  Chapter 6
>> > should go quickly, half of it is building the stuff already built
>> > with some minor variations.
>> >
>> > Today I downloaded the 8.2 stuff, I'll switch over to that next, I
>> > was trying 8.1 first coz I had downloaded it's source some time ago.
>> > Bandwidth in Australia is expensive, I have to carefully ration out
>> > things like downloading 7 GB of LFS + BLFS source code, and 8.2 was
>> > only recently released.
>> >
>> > Then I'll move to using Aboriginal Linux for the job, which I have
>> > experience with, or skip straight to mkroot which I haven't tried
>> > yet.
>> >
>> > Currently building it on my x86_64 test box natively, I will at some
>> > point tell it to build for 486.  Then I can test things on my real
>> > 486 hardware, which my old Aboriginal Linux build still works fine
>> > on. Earlier this year the 486 device was being audited by the
>> > government test labs, as it's the sort of device that requires that
>> > sort of thing.
>> >
>> > I did have the idea while working on this, that the various test
>> > suites that LFS builds for all the software that toybox replaces,
>> > might be a good idea to see if we can get them to test toybox.
>> > Dunno if you have tried that yet.
>> 
>> Where are you in Australia?
> 
> I'm in Brisbane, so not nearby to Cowra.


Yep, bit of a trek from here . . although I do have relatives at Byron 
Bay that I visit every now and then . . which is a fair bit closer . .


>> If you were nearby I could probably help with downloading
> 
> The 13th is my ISP roll over date for the month, and I had been good
> over the last month not using much bandwidth, so I had enough to
> download the 8.2 versions of LFS and BLFS books and source code, plus a
> few other big but unrelated things.  I have now done so.
> 
>> I also have a working 486 (JPG attached) for which
>> I want to make an image of its old SCSI drive to see if I can
>> virtualise it.  If it were possible, this is also the machine I would
>> like to make some mkroot boot / root floppies for - although that
>> seems too hard . .
> 
> I pointed out the ICOP people before, http://www.icop.com.tw/ that make
> the 486 board I use for some embedded work.


I did look at that stuff and it IS interesting - it would be good to 
explore that at some time too - I have been meaning to look RPis ever 
since they came out and still haven't managed to get around to it . . so 
I am interested to see how things go for you with mkroot . .


> (Note that I said https://
> last time, then found out they don't respond so well to https, though
> that might be some oddness in my proxy, I didn't investigate further.)
> It's a tiny board (fits in the palm of your hand) that is almost a
> complete PC, including lots of GPIO pins for embedded work, VGA / LCD
> video out, USB 2, serial ports, PS2, audio, 256 MB RAM, and we add on a
> 512 MB flash disk.


Yes, it is very cool and I am greatly motivated to have a closer look . 
.


> For many years we have been using Aboriginal Linux +
> control images (Robs pre cursor to mkroot) to build an embedded device
> that is subject to lengthy government regulations.  This is where
> Aboriginals 486 support came from in the first place, we needed it, I
> wrote it, and sent it to Rob who included it.


I would be interested in hearing more about that project - by direct 
mail if others would prefer for it not to be on this list . .


> So I'm well versed in getting Aboriginal Linux and the rest of the OS
> needed to support the device running on it.  All heavily scripted, I
> start the complete build on my workstation, come back in an hour and
> dd the completed disk image onto a USB stick that I then boot the 486
> with for testing.  Getting the basic Aboriginal Linux up and running on
> it is no longer hard now that it has 486 support.


Very interesting . .


> I've only glanced at mkroot, and it seems to be similar to parts of
> Aboriginal Linux, so I expect I'll be able to use it easily.


Certainly let us know how it goes.


> I don't think I even have any floppy disk or SCSI equipment anymore, so
> you are on your own with that.  My career is long enough that I have
> used such extensively far too many decades ago.


I have still have a working Exidy Sorcerer (audio tape based) and 
Osborne luggable . . my (current) place is turning into a museum . .


>> I have been trying to find the time for ages to do the LFS thing on
>> my newer / faster workstations.
> 
> So have I, that time for me started last Sunday.  If nothing else
> swallows my spare time like it did yesterday, I'll likely have a mkroot
> based LFS running on my 486 board at the end of next weekend.


Excellent . .


>> I was in Sydney (still go back there occasionally) but now I am in a
>> little country town (see below).
> 
> Sydney is a one hour flight from Brisbane, and you would know how long
> it takes you to get to Sydney from Cowra.  Likely still too far just to
> drop off a USB stick, which I no longer need now anyway.  Thanks for 
> the
> offer though.


Good that you don't need the downloading help now but it would be good 
to chat one day - but it sounds like the 486 stuff is at work and they 
may not appreciate visitors I suppose?

Regards,

Phil.

-- 
Philip Rhoades
"Life is too short . . we should be reducing suffering wherever we can 
while we explore the rest of The Universe - instead of destroying this 
beautiful and unique Pale Blue Dot".

PO Box 896
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Australia
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