[qcc] TODO?

[Рысь]

n Fri, 23 Oct 2015 12:30:32 -0500
Rob Landley <rob at landley.net> wrote:

> On 10/22/2015 11:59 PM, Рысь wrote:  
> > On Wed, 21 Oct 2015 20:21:09 -0500  
> >> The entire PC industry's installed base is less than the annual
> >> android unit shipments. Strategically, it's the fourth generation
> >> of mainframe -> minicomputer -> microcomputer -> smartphone.
> >> Fighting over PCs in 201x is like fighting over minicomputers in
> >> the 1990's. It doesn't matter who wins, that ship is sinking.  
> > 
> > Quality or quantity? The ship is sinking because the ship staff is
> > punching holes in it. Money drive them, as usual.  
> 
> The exact same quality vs quantity argument was made about
> microcomputers in the late 1970's. The Vax guys were _sure_ those
> little toys would never threaten their real computers.  

Vax was free, x86 and others was too (if counting from moment when it
was opened). Now magnitude changed: many enforce their policies without
broad review (just ignoring your opinion and violently forcing). The
result: vendor lock-ins.

As examples: secureboot and various embedded bootloaders on phones. It
also slowly makes it's way into u-boot and linux kernel under naive and
propagandist slogans like systemd do.

>   
> > So what's it's all about? I do not try to demotivate you in either
> > way, I just ask for "why such an attention to
> > corporation-influenced binary OS".  
> 
> Gee, why should I care about billion annual unit volume shipments
> which are on course to be in posession of more than half the people
> on this planet (children included) in the next year or two? That
> can't possibly be of any interest to anybody, let me continue to
> focus on a system with less than 2% desktop market share despite a
> quarter-century of trying and failing to get any sort of end-user
> installed base. That's the ticket.  

At least that 2% desktop still can be easily and freely configurable,
even most recent one with UEFI and other stuff (maybe except
secureboot thingies). Because it runs Linux. Android and other "our
future" _completely_ lacks that in favor of corporation decisions.

>   
> > I am already have your context about this (I had read your blog)
> > and eated that much. I do not want more.  
> 
> You think systemd on the rest of Linux _isn't_ corporation-influenced
> stuff being forced down people's throats whether they want it or not?
> Good luck with that.  

Sure, it's ongoing PITA again from RedHat. The solution: move outside
completely, know how your system works. But corporative clients don't
care anyway. They even don't know what that systemd is (at least there
in Russia).

Surprisingly, some steady resistance still persist. I accidentially
revisited this recently since 2012. I thought the flames were born and
anyone accepts systemd now.

> 
> The smartphone is reality, today. Ubuntu phone and firefox and
> sailfish and so on aren't and won't be, any more than openmoko was.
> 
> The PC didn't start open. It was opened after the fact. It is possible
> for partially open systems to become more open. But if the iPhone wins
> and becomes the de-facto standard with the largest installed and
> developer base, we're screwed. That's Microsoft all over again only
> competent and owning the hardware too, and Moore's Law won't last
> enough to give us another retrenchment.  

Support least evil in face of a much bigger evil. Well, I don't know
how often iPhone sold in US, in Russia it's a status thing. I see
occasionally them, but androids prevail. Despite both Unix, both -
locked down.

>   
> > Moreover, from that context, I am in strange feeling about someone
> > try to dictate overhead their own opinion like it's already
> > happened and there is no way back.  
> 
> The smartphone _has_ already happened. I'm not trying to convince you
> of anything and don't really care about your opinion on that one.  

I see. I did mean when you're talking with words that we can't escape
it (at least partially).

>   
> >>  
> >>> I wonder why such a hype to a corporation-influenced binary OS.  
> >>
> >> Because if you try to make your own phone ala openmoko, your unit
> >> volume is so low it prices itself out of the market, and then you
> >> can't get a data plan for it because the providers don't notice (or
> >> care) you exist. I'm not the FSF, I care about trying to improve
> >> the world we've got rather than imagining a cloud castle and
> >> insisting everyone live there with no path from here to there.
> >>
> >> The PC didn't start out open, it was _opened_ by cloners like
> >> compaq who survived lawsuits to defend their right to clone it.
> >> The open S/100 systems of the day died out due to lack of interest
> >> (and yes they went 16 bit with Z8000 and 8086 cards and such:
> >> nobody cared). They didn't take an open system and make it
> >> successful, they took a successful system and levered it open.
> >> That's what worked last time. Strategically they focused on the PC
> >> because it had the smallest number of proprietary bottlenecks
> >> (mostly just the BIOS). This time I'm focusing on Android for
> >> similar strategic reasons, making multiple billions of existing
> >> Android devices programmable and rootable is easier than trying to
> >> make firefox phones or ubuntu phones ever matter to anybody.
> >>
> >> By the way, my $DAYJOB is trying to fix the long-term "corporation
> >> influenced binary hardware" problem at a much deeper level than all
> >> this:
> >>
> >> https://lwn.net/Articles/647636/
> >>
> >> Rob  
> > 
> > Androids usually:
> > 
> > - Need rooting (what? I can't own my device? This is stupid, but
> > simple question)  
> 
> It's built into Google's phones:
> 
> https://www.androidpit.com/how-to-unlock-nexus-5-bootloader
> 
> If you buy a phone from another vendor who's locked it down so you
> need a bug exploit to do the same thing, blaming Google is kinda
> silly.  

No, blaming Google is right because they started it as it is. "Rooting"
here means ways and instructions to obtain root shell on my own phone.
Bootloader/recovery is another big strange thing and I can't easily get
it.

Why they did not provide that? If they really such scared about stupid
users (to hide marketer's and services ass) that will crash the phone
with 'dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/mmcblkwhatever' run as root, why not warn
with red words them about that before they will get root shell from
configuration/developer page?

The same is about bootloader/recovery. Stock recovery, for example,
check signatures and does not provide a way to bypass that. It also
resists rooting. Exploit? Well, that's all about this platform.

Why forcibly pass down such evil things like selinux and enforced
bootloaders? What that security circus is all about??

Speaking your words, "you're already screwed".

>   
> > - Not a PC (what? I can't build MY OWN Linux for it? This is stupid,
> > but, again, simple question. Look, I even had thrown away guts from
> > my router, why can't I apply same to this phone?)  
> 
> Cyanogenmod has existed for years, I've never bothered to install it
> on any of my old phones (nor my current one).
> 
> In theory you don't even need cyanogenmod, you can build an image for
> a number of phones from AOSP, and install it on the phone, but nobody
> cares. Anybody who wanted to could fork AOSP and make distros out of
> it. Again, nobody cares...  

Well, this hardware is too much hardwired to android, I understand. I
was first shocked about that I can't run generic linux on it. And
nobody will give you drivers.

Even CyanogenMod with embedded root still contains vendor binary
objects. So it's not rebuildable from ground.

(You may now add me to FSF zealots blacklist if you want)

>   
> > - Consumer-only devices that do not permit creation of anything
> > beyond typing texts on your photos before sending them to hipster
> > photo services  
> 
> Um, yes, that would be exactly what I'm trying to _fix_ by turning
> Android into a self-hosting development enviroment out of the box?
> (Not as an aftermarket add-on but by increasing the development tools
> they ship _with_ the device?)
> 
> http://landley.net/aboriginal/about.html#selfhost
> 
> "There is this thing it doesn't do! Why would you try to make it do
> that?"  

That's nice, but still, phones and tablets can't do many things PCs can,
and it's strange to talk about them as they would. Because, again,
size. I think they will coexist because of that. The ship is not
sinking, but again, someone wants it to be drown, forcibly.

>   
> > - Gaming platforms with completely unrelated games (but at least I
> > can't play quake on it. I know that because of size mismatch)  
> 
> I just googled "quake on android" and got rather a lot of hits that
> say you didn't google "quake on android"...?  

That is an example of task that can't be performed well on such a small
object as phone. Tablets can have keyboards, but still can't be a full
blown PC. And installation is pain. I tried, just for fun.

>   
> > - Slowly turn their owners into infants (I rejected that effect
> > early)  
> 
> Right. I'm going to stop paying attention to you now. Goodbye.
> 
> Have fun with your Vax,  

At least "Vax" can do ltspice well for me, and broad number of other
tasks which phones did not even got. Including quake.

The infantilism problem, however, is real too. I suggest you to observe
that in your free time.

> 
> Rob  

Bye. Sorry for any hurt if it was.

-- 
http://lynxlynx.tk/
Power electronics made simple
Unix and simple KISS C code

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