[Toybox] complaining about 'ifconfig' - better use 'ip'

[Bastian Bittorf]

* Rob Landley <rob at landley.net> [05.04.2013 09:00]:
> >there is not plugin-arch, just one command which simply
> >manipulates the kernels netlink-interface.
> 
> A very large, very complicated command in the mold of systemd.

whats interesting to me:

the busybox-ip with all it's features (a lot more than
ifconfig/route/arp/netstat can deliver) has nearly the same size.

bastian at box:~/busybox-1.21.0$ make allnoconfig
# and activate ifconfig/arp/netstat/route
bastian at box:~/busybox-1.21.0$ ls -l busybox*
-rwxr-xr-x 1 bastian bastian  37048 Apr  5 09:18 busybox
-rwxr-xr-x 1 bastian bastian  51939 Apr  5 09:18 busybox_unstripped
-rw-r--r-- 1 bastian bastian 106920 Apr  5 09:18 busybox_unstripped.map
-rw-r--r-- 1 bastian bastian  15580 Apr  5 09:18 busybox_unstripped.out

bastian at box:~/busybox-1.21.0$ make allnoconfig
# and activate ip
bastian at gcc20:~/busybox/busybox-1.21.0$ ls -l busybox*
-rwxr-xr-x 1 bastian bastian  42696 Apr  5 09:21 busybox
-rwxr-xr-x 1 bastian bastian  56911 Apr  5 09:21 busybox_unstripped
-rw-r--r-- 1 bastian bastian 105150 Apr  5 09:21 busybox_unstripped.map
-rw-r--r-- 1 bastian bastian  15565 Apr  5 09:21 busybox_unstripped.out

and again from the design-view: it's makes no sense to split up one tool into
different ones, when you are doing the same thing (manipulating network). show
it in the syntax is enough:

ip link ...
ip address ...
ip route ...
ip rule ...
ip neigh ...
ip tunnel ...

(and more, always with the same syntax add/delete/show ...)

> never quite understood.
> 
> >> >if you are
> >> >really using 'ifconfig', you should better switch now. the
> >> >pain will be much worse if you wait again 2 years...
> >>
> >> In what way? I vaguely recall first hearing about "ip" back under
> >Red
> >> Hat 9, which shipped in 2003. So I've been successfully largely
> >> ignoring it for 10 years now. What's queued up to change in the near
> >> future?
> >
> >i will. there is no work done anymore on ifconfig, even the manpage
> >says to switch.
> 
> You keep saying that, but like so many other things you've said you
> don't back it up, and what I can see disagrees with what you say.
> 
> Giving you the benefit of the doubt of using the version of ubuntu
> you're using (which is newer than the LTS I'm using), here is the man
> page for ifconfig:
> 
>   http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/precise/en/man8/ifconfig.8.html
> 
> Please point me to the text you were referring to. I can't find it.

debian has it not 8-(
http://linux.die.net/man/8/ifconfig

> Note: if you mean _ip_ command's man page says that ifconfig is
> obsolete, this is exactly as convincing to me as Microsoft saying
> Linux is obsolete. You'll notice I'm not claiming that busybox is

no thats not the same. it would be the same, when microsoft says:
"IE is obsolete, use firefox."

the network people say: ifconfig is obsolete, use ip.

> >there is no standard, just reallive (like the mount or init-command):
> >every developer in the network world has realized, that doing the
> >'ifconfg/route/arp/netstat'-thingy was a dead-end-street.
> 
> Hmmm, it's not http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum
> when they're invisible, I think it's
> http://barb.velvet.com/humor/lurkers.html except you're claiming
> _every_ eveloper thinks the same way as you do. That there are none
> who don't.

ask somebody you thrust who does networking about his opinion about that.

> Look: fconfig and friends are not coming out. Android toolbox has
> ifconfig, thus toybox needs ifconfig. The question is whether or not
> it needs "ip" on top of that, and I must admit you're not doing the
> best job of advocacy I've seen recently.

8-) so shame on me, i did me best. one question left:
ifconfig/arp/route/netstat in androids toolbox: are there other
programs depend on this, or is it "just" for the devs/debug?

bye, bastian

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