[Toybox] ftell/fseek

[enh]

On Fri, Feb 24, 2023 at 8:46 AM Rob Landley <rob at landley.net> wrote:

> On 2/22/23 18:58, enh wrote:
> > On Wed, Feb 22, 2023 at 4:46 PM Rob Landley <rob at landley.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> On 2/22/23 15:52, enh wrote:
> >> > i've sent a patch upstream (with you cc:ed) anyway. (patches still
> >> > seem to get in without michael kerrisk --- it's "just" web site
> >> > updates that don't happen.
> >>
> >> Apparently he handed off maintainership:
> >>
> >>   https://www.spinics.net/lists/linux-man/msg24435.html
> >>
> >> And indeed, he's listed as comaintainer at:
> >>
> >>   https://www.kernel.org/doc/man-pages/maintaining.html
> >>
> >> I dunno what the keys are for updating kernel.org/doc/man-pages. Many
> moons ago
> >> (http://landley.net/hg/kdocs) I used to maintain kernel.org/doc but I
> lost
> >> access after that whole kernel.org breakin and the move to kgit or
> whatever that
> >> nonsense was, since I could no longer rsync https://landley.net/kdocs
> up to the
> >> site.
> >>
> >> I at least made puppy eyes at konstantin until he hacked up something
> for
> >> https://kernel.org/doc/html/ and https://kernel.org/doc/Documentation/
> and so on
> >> to update, and hey, he even salvaged the README finder, cool. Although
> my
> >>
> https://web.archive.org/web/20120121090059/http://www.kernel.org/doc/menuconfig/
> >> Horrible Python Script was beyond him and he wound up just removing
> that...
> >>
> >> Anyway, back when I _did_ have access I created a man-pages
> subdirectory that
> >> Konstantin chowned so mkerrisk could write to it, but I dunno what he
> used to
> >> update it? Especially after I lost the ability to do so. (They wanted
> me to do
> >> some sort of "check your thing into git and it'll do an automated git
> checkout",
> >> and I was going "you took down Greg KH's 2 gigabyte tutorial video so I
> was
> >> gonna mirror it until it could get better hosting, do you really want
> that
> >> permanently in the git history even after I delete it again?" I blogged
> quite
> >> sarcastically about this at the time...)
> >>
> >> Ha, the c99 html link is a bit stale there. I mean it's still there,
> but dude...
> >> Oh, the "legacy reasons" link moved, I'll ping konstantin. Huh, several
> of the
> >> links further down are broken now, not sure what to do about the
> linux-journal
> >> archives. The individual articles are still there but the index isn't...
> >>
> >> > which is pretty debilitating for anyone who
> >> > doesn't have a local git clone of man-pages.git, which is "basically
> >> > everyone" :-( )
> >>
> >> The new guy says it moved to:
> >>
> >>   https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/docs/man-pages/man-pages.git/
> >
> > no, the _git_ project is fine. i've made several updates to that in
> > the last few years. they're just not making it out to
> > https://man7.org/linux/man-pages/man3/fseek.3.html which is where
> > people actually end up. (younger people especially seem to ask the
> > internet first rather than type `man foo`.)
>
> Sigh, https://www.kernel.org/doc/man-pages/ is all links _back_ to
> man7.org
> isn't it?
>
> Possibly the new maintainer needs to poke Konstantin to get access to
> update the
> directory, and then put stuff under the actual kernel.org page? (Or you
> could
> put some under an android.org location? Either way they'd be up to date
> with the
> repo instead of a couple years behind...)
>

yeah, that's one of the options ... generate the html and stick it on one
of the android-specific sites, but that seems a bit odd (people are already
confused by places where the man pages are actually only talking about
glibc; hosting them on an android site would only make that worse) and
there are already a lot of links to man7.org out there in the wild, that it
would be unfortunate to see go stale. (though if no-one has access to
man7.org any more, there's nothing we can do about that anyway.)


> Let's see, how hard is it to produce html output from this git repo...
> it's got
> a top level Makefile to do exactly that as its default target, but it
> wants a
> package called "man2html". And installing that on my laptop installed
> apache
> which LAUNCHED AN INSTANCE ON LOOPBACK. Why on EARTH would... that's just
> sad.
>
> But ok, I can uninstall it again after building... looks like it populated
> tmp/html with files? No top level index. Let's see, the first file under
> "man3"
> is __after_morecore_hook.3.html which seems to be a synonym for
> malloc_hook (not
> symlinks or hardlinks, just redundantly generated files). The "Return to
> main
> contents" link goes to file:///cgi-bin/man/man2html which does not exist.
> The
> #include <malloc.h> link goes to file:///usr/include/malloc.h which ain't
> gonna
> work on a web server either...
>
> Looks like there's the start of something workable here, but it needs a
> bit of
> shoveling? (Or at least digging into how to configure it?)
>

yeah, and one problem with being part of a large bureaucracy is that the
docs folks and the branding folks will all want a say in making it look
"right" if it's on an android site!


> >> > the bug is probably that it took us so long
> >> > to remove this cruft. (though we've had bytes are 8 bits for a while
> >> > now, and c23 finally guarantees two's complement!)
> >>
> >> Oooh, does it? That's nice. Does this mean the stupid compiler
> "optimizing" out
> >> explicit checks for signed integer overflow will STOP DOING THAT?
> >
> > nope... that's still
> > https://thephd.dev/c-undefined-behavior-and-the-sledgehammer-guideline
>
> I apply the sledgehammer to the compiler. (Push back against the abuser
> causing
> the damage, don't make the victims endlessly escalate ever-changing
> "compliance"
> that's never good enough. Danegeld encourages the dane.)
>

read the link (or listen to what i've been telling you for the best part of
a decade) --- the problem is that the compiler folks don't believe we're
their customer. they don't care about "is it useful?", they care about
"microbenchmark line goes up?". or, in your analogy "the law is currently
on the abuser's side".


> >> Rob
>
> Still Rob
>
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