From rob at landley.net Fri May 2 11:29:24 2014 From: rob at landley.net (Rob Landley) Date: Fri, 02 May 2014 06:29:24 -0500 Subject: [Aboriginal] Hello world. Message-ID: <53638194.7060100@landley.net> The current repository builds targets with the 3.14 kernel, and the system images boot for me with qemu 2.0. The reason I haven't cut a release yet is something's wrong with the ftp uploading in automatic builds, so the static-tools builds are compiling stuff, but it's not being sent to the host. Might be due to upgrading busybox, might not. I should be able to take another stab at tracking it down this weekend. No, I didn't get the ccwrap rewrite finished to switch over to musl this time. I've reverted just about everything else I had pending until I get that done, that's _the_ big development blocking issue. Toybox work is still taking up most of my spare time. (Really want to get a 1.0 of that out this year...) Rob 1399030164.0 From rob at landley.net Sun May 4 16:20:00 2014 From: rob at landley.net (Rob Landley) Date: Sun, 04 May 2014 11:20:00 -0500 Subject: [Aboriginal] 1.2.7 is out. Message-ID: <536668B0.705@landley.net> And would you believe I forgot to upgrade busybox? 3.14 kernel, toybox 0.4.8. And it's natively building the current version of dropbear. Other than that, just some bugfixes. (There are more pending bugfixes, and several major architectural issues I want to redo*, but the 3.15 kernel's up to rc3 so I'm trying to get back in sync.) Rob * uClibc->musl, simple-root-filesystem in initramfs by default with /dev/hda being external toolchain mounted and spliced into $PATH if it's there, 9p filesystem exports from host either via a server in toybox or more flexible ue of virtfs across more hardware targets, the target-side record-commands.sh genericized so the host is using something that flexible and not incestuously complciated... You know: stuff. But for the moment: my spare time goes mostly to toybox. 1399220400.0 From onefang at gmail.com Mon May 26 18:23:49 2014 From: onefang at gmail.com (David Seikel) Date: Tue, 27 May 2014 04:23:49 +1000 Subject: [Aboriginal] Aboriginal Linux on Google play. Message-ID: <20140527042349.7cbc8e38.onefang@gmail.com> I was going to start a discussion about putting Aboriginal Linux and toybox on Google play, and did a short bit of searching to find out if it had already been done. I'm using this list coz Aboriginal Linux covers both, since it includes toybox. I didn't want to cross post. Apart from finding lots of Aboriginal art work apps and kids cute toybox toys, I found this - https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=champion.gnuroot.aboriginal So I guess that part is taken care of. Rob, would you be OK if I put together a toybox installer app, similar to the existing busybox installers, and put it up on Google play? I can call it something like 'onefangs toybox installer, based on Rob Landley's toybox' or what ever you prefer. For a major search based company, their app store searching system leaves a lot to be desired. -- A big old stinking pile of genius that no one wants coz there are too many silver coated monkeys in the world. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: not available URL: From rob at landley.net Tue May 27 00:10:30 2014 From: rob at landley.net (Rob Landley) Date: Mon, 26 May 2014 19:10:30 -0500 Subject: [Aboriginal] Aboriginal Linux on Google play. In-Reply-To: <20140527042349.7cbc8e38.onefang@gmail.com> References: <20140527042349.7cbc8e38.onefang@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5383D7F6.1000305@landley.net> On 05/26/14 13:23, David Seikel wrote: > I was going to start a discussion about putting Aboriginal Linux and > toybox on Google play, and did a short bit of searching to find out if > it had already been done. I'm using this list coz Aboriginal Linux > covers both, since it includes toybox. I didn't want to cross post. > > Apart from finding lots of Aboriginal art work apps and kids cute > toybox toys, I found this - > > https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=champion.gnuroot.aboriginal > > So I guess that part is taken care of. Yup. I installed that on my phone to play with it. My phone tends to reboot if I leave it running too long, I think there's some sort of lock timeout going on or something. (Not sure.) I also need to install a different keyboard app. Getting an escape out of the default keyboard is something like volume up plus E, and I've forgotten how cursoring around works... > Rob, would you be OK if I put together a toybox installer app, similar > to the existing busybox installers, and put it up on Google play? Sure, go for it. I'm a little out of sync with the kernel releases but trying to catch back up. Right now I'm aiming for toybox and aboriginal releases at the end of June. > I can > call it something like 'onefangs toybox installer, based on Rob > Landley's toybox' or what ever you prefer. I don't think you need my name in it? (Nobody had to say "Erik Andersen's Busybox" or "Jamie Zawinski's Mozilla"...) > For a major search based company, their app store searching system > leaves a lot to be desired. Yeah, I've noticed. :) Rob 1401149430.0 From onefang at gmail.com Tue May 27 00:24:35 2014 From: onefang at gmail.com (David Seikel) Date: Tue, 27 May 2014 10:24:35 +1000 Subject: [Aboriginal] Aboriginal Linux on Google play. In-Reply-To: <5383D7F6.1000305@landley.net> References: <20140527042349.7cbc8e38.onefang@gmail.com> <5383D7F6.1000305@landley.net> Message-ID: <20140527102435.2325b6b3.onefang@gmail.com> On Mon, 26 May 2014 19:10:30 -0500 Rob Landley wrote: > On 05/26/14 13:23, David Seikel wrote: > > I was going to start a discussion about putting Aboriginal Linux and > > toybox on Google play, and did a short bit of searching to find out > > if it had already been done. I'm using this list coz Aboriginal > > Linux covers both, since it includes toybox. I didn't want to > > cross post. > > > > Apart from finding lots of Aboriginal art work apps and kids cute > > toybox toys, I found this - > > > > https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=champion.gnuroot.aboriginal > > > > So I guess that part is taken care of. > > Yup. I installed that on my phone to play with it. My phone tends to > reboot if I leave it running too long, I think there's some sort of > lock timeout going on or something. (Not sure.) > > I also need to install a different keyboard app. Getting an escape out > of the default keyboard is something like volume up plus E, and I've > forgotten how cursoring around works... Hacker's keyboard is what lots off programmers and sys admins use, and so do I. https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.pocketworkstation.pckeyboard > > > Rob, would you be OK if I put together a toybox installer app, > > similar to the existing busybox installers, and put it up on Google > > play? > > Sure, go for it. Thanks. I can't promise it will happen quickly, gotta sort out a logo and stuff. There's no toybox logo, is there? Hopefully something that doesn't look like a kids toybox so it stands out from that crowd in the app store. > I'm a little out of sync with the kernel releases but trying to catch > back up. Right now I'm aiming for toybox and aboriginal releases at > the end of June. > > > I can > > call it something like 'onefangs toybox installer, based on Rob > > Landley's toybox' or what ever you prefer. > > I don't think you need my name in it? (Nobody had to say "Erik > Andersen's Busybox" or "Jamie Zawinski's Mozilla"...) Well, credit where credit is due. Though I think considering how the search results are displayed might be best to leave my name off it to, so it's nice and short and obviously not a bunch of toys for young children. "toybox installer" should do the trick. -- A big old stinking pile of genius that no one wants coz there are too many silver coated monkeys in the world. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: not available URL: From rob at landley.net Tue May 27 00:44:16 2014 From: rob at landley.net (Rob Landley) Date: Mon, 26 May 2014 19:44:16 -0500 Subject: [Aboriginal] Aboriginal Linux on Google play. In-Reply-To: <20140527102435.2325b6b3.onefang@gmail.com> References: <20140527042349.7cbc8e38.onefang@gmail.com> <5383D7F6.1000305@landley.net> <20140527102435.2325b6b3.onefang@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5383DFE0.5080702@landley.net> On 05/26/14 19:24, David Seikel wrote: >>> Rob, would you be OK if I put together a toybox installer app, >>> similar to the existing busybox installers, and put it up on Google >>> play? >> >> Sure, go for it. > > Thanks. I can't promise it will happen quickly, gotta sort out a logo > and stuff. There's no toybox logo, is there? Hopefully something > that doesn't look like a kids toybox so it stands out from that crowd > in the app store. Back in 2007 I spelled out "Toybox" in ascii using coke zero and pepsi one cans, and that's still linked at the end of: http://landley.net/toybox/about.html But as a web page background, it made the text hard to read even when overexposed to near-white. And as a logo, it's not hugely recognizeable scaled down. It was a nice in-joke when the project was just me, but I stopped using it because it wasn't helping... >> I'm a little out of sync with the kernel releases but trying to catch >> back up. Right now I'm aiming for toybox and aboriginal releases at >> the end of June. >> >>> I can >>> call it something like 'onefangs toybox installer, based on Rob >>> Landley's toybox' or what ever you prefer. >> >> I don't think you need my name in it? (Nobody had to say "Erik >> Andersen's Busybox" or "Jamie Zawinski's Mozilla"...) > > Well, credit where credit is due. Lotsa other people have written toybox commands. :) > Though I think considering how the > search results are displayed might be best to leave my name off it to, > so it's nice and short and obviously not a bunch of toys for young > children. "toybox installer" should do the trick. I tend to work out what name I _should_ have used for a project long after launching it. In this case, "dorodango" would have been the perfect name. (Endless polishing!) But at the moment I'm personally focused on development, not marketing... Rob 1401151456.0 From onefang at gmail.com Tue May 27 00:53:27 2014 From: onefang at gmail.com (David Seikel) Date: Tue, 27 May 2014 10:53:27 +1000 Subject: [Aboriginal] Aboriginal Linux on Google play. In-Reply-To: <5383DFE0.5080702@landley.net> References: <20140527042349.7cbc8e38.onefang@gmail.com> <5383D7F6.1000305@landley.net> <20140527102435.2325b6b3.onefang@gmail.com> <5383DFE0.5080702@landley.net> Message-ID: <20140527105327.4071fd4f.onefang@gmail.com> On Mon, 26 May 2014 19:44:16 -0500 Rob Landley wrote: > On 05/26/14 19:24, David Seikel wrote: > >>> Rob, would you be OK if I put together a toybox installer app, > >>> similar to the existing busybox installers, and put it up on > >>> Google play? > >> > >> Sure, go for it. > > > > Thanks. I can't promise it will happen quickly, gotta sort out a > > logo and stuff. There's no toybox logo, is there? Hopefully > > something that doesn't look like a kids toybox so it stands out > > from that crowd in the app store. > > Back in 2007 I spelled out "Toybox" in ascii using coke zero and pepsi > one cans, and that's still linked at the end of: > > http://landley.net/toybox/about.html > > But as a web page background, it made the text hard to read even when > overexposed to near-white. And as a logo, it's not hugely > recognizeable scaled down. It was a nice in-joke when the project was > just me, but I stopped using it because it wasn't helping... I'm no artist, but I'm not bad at graphics mashups if I can find some good base images. I'm a good photographer though, so might find something I can photograph and use as part of the artwork. I'll see what I can whip up. I'm thinking a kids toybox, but over flowing with high tech tools and stuffed pengiuns. If I can find decent images to bolt together. -- A big old stinking pile of genius that no one wants coz there are too many silver coated monkeys in the world. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: not available URL: From rob at landley.net Tue May 27 02:07:46 2014 From: rob at landley.net (Rob Landley) Date: Mon, 26 May 2014 21:07:46 -0500 Subject: [Aboriginal] Aboriginal Linux on Google play. In-Reply-To: <20140527105327.4071fd4f.onefang@gmail.com> References: <20140527042349.7cbc8e38.onefang@gmail.com> <5383D7F6.1000305@landley.net> <20140527102435.2325b6b3.onefang@gmail.com> <5383DFE0.5080702@landley.net> <20140527105327.4071fd4f.onefang@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5383F372.5070608@landley.net> On 05/26/14 19:53, David Seikel wrote: > I'm thinking a kids toybox, but over flowing with high tech tools and > stuffed pengiuns. If I can find decent images to bolt together. I've seen that logo elsewhere. There's already a busybox and android toolbox. Can't say I'm hugely enthused at the concept. To be honest, if I could get the rights to the image on http://www.dorodango.com/about.html it'd be perfect. Failing that, something abstract would be nice. Still, this isn't an issue I've cared enough to do anything about in years, so... Rob 1401156466.0 From onefang at gmail.com Wed May 28 06:21:39 2014 From: onefang at gmail.com (David Seikel) Date: Wed, 28 May 2014 16:21:39 +1000 Subject: [Aboriginal] Aboriginal Linux on Google play. In-Reply-To: <5383F372.5070608@landley.net> References: <20140527042349.7cbc8e38.onefang@gmail.com> <5383D7F6.1000305@landley.net> <20140527102435.2325b6b3.onefang@gmail.com> <5383DFE0.5080702@landley.net> <20140527105327.4071fd4f.onefang@gmail.com> <5383F372.5070608@landley.net> Message-ID: <20140528162139.6f0e0ca8.onefang@gmail.com> On Mon, 26 May 2014 21:07:46 -0500 Rob Landley wrote: > On 05/26/14 19:53, David Seikel wrote: > > I'm thinking a kids toybox, but over flowing with high tech tools > > and stuffed pengiuns. If I can find decent images to bolt together. > > I've seen that logo elsewhere. There's already a busybox and android > toolbox. Can't say I'm hugely enthused at the concept. > > To be honest, if I could get the rights to the image on > http://www.dorodango.com/about.html it'd be perfect. Failing that, > something abstract would be nice. I've sent a request to Bruce Gardner concerning that image. Failing that, I quite like this image http://www.flickr.com/photos/53907537 at N00/415495270 though it doesn't appear to be licensable, so I might whip up an abstract image that is inspired by it. > Still, this isn't an issue I've cared enough to do anything about in > years, so... Well I want to put it up on Google play, and some sort of graphic for the app icon is needed. I might as well put some effort into getting a half way decent graphic. -- A big old stinking pile of genius that no one wants coz there are too many silver coated monkeys in the world. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: not available URL: From rob at landley.net Wed May 28 19:19:13 2014 From: rob at landley.net (Rob Landley) Date: Wed, 28 May 2014 14:19:13 -0500 Subject: [Aboriginal] Aboriginal Linux on Google play. In-Reply-To: <20140528162139.6f0e0ca8.onefang@gmail.com> References: <20140527042349.7cbc8e38.onefang@gmail.com> <5383D7F6.1000305@landley.net> <20140527102435.2325b6b3.onefang@gmail.com> <5383DFE0.5080702@landley.net> <20140527105327.4071fd4f.onefang@gmail.com> <5383F372.5070608@landley.net> <20140528162139.6f0e0ca8.onefang@gmail.com> Message-ID: <538636B1.5010507@landley.net> On 05/28/14 01:21, David Seikel wrote: > On Mon, 26 May 2014 21:07:46 -0500 Rob Landley wrote: > >> On 05/26/14 19:53, David Seikel wrote: >>> I'm thinking a kids toybox, but over flowing with high tech tools >>> and stuffed pengiuns. If I can find decent images to bolt together. >> >> I've seen that logo elsewhere. There's already a busybox and android >> toolbox. Can't say I'm hugely enthused at the concept. >> >> To be honest, if I could get the rights to the image on >> http://www.dorodango.com/about.html it'd be perfect. Failing that, >> something abstract would be nice. > > I've sent a request to Bruce Gardner concerning that image. Failing > that, I quite like this image > http://www.flickr.com/photos/53907537 at N00/415495270 though it doesn't > appear to be licensable, so I might whip up an abstract image that is > inspired by it. Either sounds good to me. :) >> Still, this isn't an issue I've cared enough to do anything about in >> years, so... > > Well I want to put it up on Google play, and some sort of graphic for > the app icon is needed. I might as well put some effort into getting a > half way decent graphic. I'm all for it. Thanks, Rob 1401304753.0 From rob at landley.net Sat May 31 01:57:48 2014 From: rob at landley.net (Rob Landley) Date: Fri, 30 May 2014 20:57:48 -0500 Subject: [Aboriginal] Fwd: Re: Inquiry In-Reply-To: <5386361C.2020506@landley.net> References: <5386361C.2020506@landley.net> Message-ID: <5389371C.6070708@landley.net> And permission to forward the reply to the list... Rob -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: Inquiry Date: Wed, 28 May 2014 14:16:44 -0500 From: Rob Landley To: stacy.kenworthy at gmail.com On 05/28/14 06:01, Stacy Kenworthy wrote: > Hi Rob, > > What would be the most helpful to the project at this point? More > development resources? Short answer, "more scripts/test/*.test entries written from the online POSIX docs". Long answer: helpful to which project, Aboriginal Linux, Toybox, or self-hosting Android? Aboriginal Linux is semi-mothballed because it hit its 1.0 release goals and now "does what it says on the tin". It rebuilds itself under itself, and builds Linux From Scratch, without any gnu packages except the toolchain. (Making that happen involved me becoming busybox maintainer for a couple years because I was doing more development than Erik was.) I'm using it as a toybox test harness (replace one busybox command with a toybox implementation, build it and build LFS under it, rinse repeat) until I run out of busybox commands to replace. I also need to replace uClibc with musl, which is more time consuming than hard. (Long-term, I want to do http://landley.net/qcc and one thing that needs to do is accept the gcc command line options. I made my toolchain relocatable with a wrapper binary that parses the gcc command line and rewrites it to start with --nostdinc --nostdlib and then explicitly say where to find all the headers and libraries and .o files the build uses. This wrapper was originally part of uClibc, abandoning said wrapper is how bulidroot got started. I think I explained that in http://landley.net/aboriginal/history.html if you're _really- bored. Anyway, writing a new version of that wrapper that's A) not a giant mass of scar tissue from too much patching by too many different people, B) not uClibc-centric, C) public domain instead of GPL, is useful for qcc so I'm letting the rewrite block aboriginal->musl migration to force me to _do_ said rewrite. The old one's in aboriginal/sources/toys/ccwrap.c if you're curious.) Toybox needs more users and testers, and it needs more cleanup work. Just trying to actually use the commands that are there in something real, and telling me if they work for you is quite helpful. (Well, the ones enabled by "make defconfig", anyway. The commands in "pending" should all default no because they've got various known problems and limitations.) I've put up a http://landley.net/toybox/cleanup.html page describing some of my "turn a 1500 line ifconfig into a 500 line ifconfig" work. The "pending" directory is full of stuff I haven't managed to clean up yet. I _desperately_ need more test suite entries, scripts/test doesn't have nearly full coverage. (You can run one test with "scripts/test.sh commandname" or run them all with "make test". In theory going through http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9699919799/idx/utilities.html finding commands we've already implemented and making test entries about everything the spec says (not just "what we should accept" but "what we should _fail_ on") would be great. It's also really nit-picky and time consuming. (I usually copy "cat.test" as a template, but if some tests should only run when certain config entries are enabled sort.test shows that, and chgrp has a "should only run as root" test. I've been meaning to do an aboriginal linux build control image that runs the toybox test suite as root in a known environment, that way tests for things like "mount" count be done without screwing up somebody's host if something goes wrong...) (Yes, automated regression testing with respect to standards documents is a thing I care about, even before the 1.0 release. :) For the android self-hosting thing, all of the above advances it (aboriginal with musl, toybox, llvm, and the android kernel is 3/4 of the way to self-hosting android). I need to bang on http://ellcc.org but the last time I tried it the results weren't pretty: http://ellcc.org/blog/?p=231 http://landley.net/notes-2014.html#08-03-2014 http://landley.net/notes-2014.html#20-01-2014 The last real discussion of that on the list was november: http://lists.landley.net/pipermail/aboriginal-landley.net/2013-November/date.html I note that ellcc was still using binutils, because http://lld.llvm.org "wasn't ready yet" (whatever that means). (There's a reason I still want to do qcc even if llvm starts working for this. If http://pcc.ludd.ltu.se/ revives that would be good too. Either needs a 'cfront' update to bootstrap llvm though...) Plus trying to build AOSP under Aboriginal, but that's "the distro bootstrapping problem". Which I'm sure I covered in my blog, and was probably also in https://speakerdeck.com/mirell/developing-for-non-x86-targets-using-qemu too. ("Firmware Linux" was the old name for Aboriginal Linux.) P.S. Do you mind if I cc: this response to the mailing list? Rob 1401501468.0